Recorded: August 5, 2009
Your Host: Steve Murawski, Rich Niemeier and Keith Albright
Show Length: 1:07:28


Read the full show notes here.

Read the UStream chat log here.

Website Picks

Rich – DLink TV

Keith – Item Not As Described – A look at some of the weirder/funnier posts on Craigslist.

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  1. 1
    August 13th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

    Just discovered your podcast, thanks for putting that out there.

    Thought I’d add one to your list of web-based project management software for you to check out… web2project.

    It’s a fork of dotproject from some of the main developers.

  2. 2
    Martin W.
    August 14th, 2009 at 9:35 am

    MS ‘squash’ VMWare, really? Come on now…I’m not a fanboy of either side but the vmware benefits from 2 years ago are still ahead of hyper-v R2.

    Maybe I’m missing something, can I obtain hyper-v for free? I mean w/o having to buy their OS? Yes, it’s ‘free’ with Windows Server 2008. On the other hand, ESX-i is ‘totally free’.

  3. 3
    August 14th, 2009 at 1:06 pm


    Thanks for your comment. A quick clarification; I went back to listen to the conversation to be sure, and realized I spoke as if MS squashed VMWare for the sake of the argument. I didn’t mean to imply I think MS has won. In fact, I don’t think Microsoft has (or will) squash VMWare. (Steve may differ on this)

    Second, you can download Hyper-V for free. It is Hyper-V server 2008 and it is a stand-alone server (not running on a Windows Host OS) similar to ESXi. It was originally a for-pay product but was changed to free to compete with ESXi. You can download it here:

    I should note that Hyper-V Server also includes live migration tools you don’t get with ESXi. (Windows only of course)

    Lastly, here is why I believe VMWare will remain dominant:
    1. Independence and range of guest OS support. MS was Windows only on guests. Now it is just opening up to Linux. I’ve run just about everything on VMWare for years (DOS, Netware, SCO, Linux, etc) and I don’t think MS will ever catch up because of their allegiance to the Windows OS. Do you think MS will optimize Hyper-V for Windows or some other OS guest machines?
    2. Patents. VMWare has the patent on the snapshot feature. Yes, mainly used in dev/test environments and not so much in production; it is still a major differentiator in capabilities.
    3. Enterprise and the product ecosystem. MS has one product and it’s the free one. VMWare has free products but a commercial ESX server and all the tools. No matter how great something free is, most large enterprises want to buy the full-scale product for production. Why? So the vendor has skin in the game with those revenue dollars and is responsive to the enterprise. The ecosystem of VMWare Virtualization is large with many vendors developing to their products. I think the enterprise market backs those products because it gives them options and more support.

    I hope that clarifies my position. Steve will probably chime in next.

  4. 4
    August 15th, 2009 at 8:15 am

    I’ll chime in a bit too, but Keith covered most of the points. Here are a couple of clarifications:
    Live Migration is a new feature as of Hyper V Server 2008 R2, which was just released on Technet/MSDN. My understanding is that Live Migration is not limited to Windows guests, but to any OS with the Integration Components (which are available in some form for different Linux distros).
    As Keith mentioned, Hyper-V Server was free, but it was offered as free first and ESXi was offered as a free product in response (in my recollection). The important part of the R2 release is that Live Migration and High Availability are part of the free offering. Hyper-V is also “free” as a feature of the Server 2008/2008 R2 operating system, but the licensing has been modified to adjust to virtualization concerns. A Standard license includes one virtual license in addition to the physical install license, so if you install Server 2008/2008 R2 on physical hardware with the Hyper-V role, you can run a virtualized instance of Server 2008/2008 R2 with the same license. Enterprise Edition offers support for four virtual machines under the same license, and the Datacenter edition includes unlimited guest installations.

    Will Hyper-V crush VMWare? I have no real idea. It is highly likely that it will take a substantial bite out of potential new business, since it is bundled with the OS and has a full featured free version. VMWare will probably retain its dominance in environments with specialized requirements, at least until some other game changing technology steps forward…

    Disclaimer, I’m a fan of free and easy, and Hyper-V has been great to work with, so I haven’t spent much time with ESXi, which seems to have greater technical hurdles to implementing (just my impression, I’m not basing this on anything other than ancedotal evidence from associates who have tried to get ESXi up and running and had driver issues).

  5. 5
    Martin W.
    August 17th, 2009 at 8:21 am

    Thanks for clarifying your statement about MS/VMWare Keith, I knew what you really meant to say =] I do agree with Steve that MS will and already is taking a bite out of VMWare’s potential client base. I know this from my own experience, as much as I am pro VMWare, majority of my virtual machines are run using the MS hypervisor, mainly due to the learning curve and lack of IT support for our company should I leave one day. Also the training cost is a big factor for us.

    I don’t agree that the ESX learning curve is tougher than Hyper-V, I always found the ESX-i install to be super easy and using VMWare converter is not a challenging task at all. Having said that, building a Windows 2008 Server that already includes hyper-v, convincing others may become difficult if the scope is simply to run some internal application servers or dev servers. On the other hand I can make a strong case for using ESX when rolling out public facing virtual machines.

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